From: Michael G Schwern Date: 22:57 on 21 Jan 2008 Subject: Mailing list as bug tracker It's hateful enough to use a mailing list as your bug tracker, it's not like any good bug tracker doesn't have a mail gateway, but it's extra hateful when they don't accept posts from non-members so I need to sign up to a bunch of mail I don't care one bit about JUST TO REPORT A BUG! I'm looking at you, TextMate. Specifically their bundles.
From: Andy Armstrong Date: 23:02 on 21 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Mailing list as bug tracker On 21 Jan 2008, at 22:57, Michael G Schwern wrote: > I'm looking at you, TextMate. Specifically their bundles. Just cos I said hello to you and you thought "Christ, that fucker Armstrong gets everywhere" :)
From: Tony Bowden Date: 00:11 on 22 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Mailing list as bug tracker Michael G Schwern wrote: > It's hateful enough to use a mailing list as your bug tracker, it's not > like any good bug tracker doesn't have a mail gateway, but it's extra > hateful when they don't accept posts from non-members so I need to sign > up to a bunch of mail I don't care one bit about JUST TO REPORT A BUG! Pah, I see your poxy mailing list and raise you the Open Document Format process. Working, as I am, on a spreadsheet application, I often refer to the Open Formula specification which does a fairly good job of providing useful edge-case tests, and noting inconsistencies between the implementation of various functions across Excel, Gnumeric, Open Office, etc. But a few weeks back I noticed that one of their test cases seemed to have a spurious minus sign in it. After confirming that I was correct in every spreadsheet app I had access to, I decided to be nice and report this to them. But: * There is no email address prominent in the document to send it to * There is, however, a link in the PDF that takes you to a website that has a well-hidden link (that _looks_ like text, but, for no obvious reason, isn't, so that using Find in your browser doesn't actually find it) to a feedback form. * When you eventually find and follow the link, you are told: due to technical problems the public "Send a Comment" button on the formula subcommittee page currently DOES NOT WORK. We very much want to receive public comments -- for now, please send comments to the formula subcommittee through the <OpenDocument TC comment form>. * Upon following that link, you discover that the mention of such a comment form was a lie, and you actually need to subscribe to a mailing list. * But before you can even think of subscribing, first you need to download a PDF of a legal agreement (or, more accurately, a blank template of a legal agreement that isn't even filled in for the right specification yet) * Then you need to read and understand the 6000 word OASIS Intellectual Property Rights (“IPRâ€) Policy. * Then, even if you were minded to sign such a document without first taking legal advice, you need to work out what to do with it. The "Guidelines for Mailing List" page implies that there's a "Subscription Manager" tool that would presumably require you to submit the filled in legal document somehow, but that link is actually just a local link to <a href="#subscribing">, which simply takes you back up the page by two lines, as that's the section that the link is already in. Maybe there are more instructions in an auto-response email when you try to subscribe, but I don't know, because I never got that far. Instead I just emailed the committee chair - only to get a response (a real one, from a live person, not an auto-response) saying that paying any attention to my email without me going through the entire process would "potentially contaminate the work of the TC". Unsurprisingly I haven't reported the 20+ errors I've found since. Tony
From: Philip Newton Date: 07:29 on 22 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Mailing list as bug tracker On Jan 22, 2008 1:11 AM, Tony Bowden <tony@xxxx.xxx> wrote: > But a few weeks back I noticed that one of their test cases seemed to > have a spurious minus sign in it. After confirming that I was correct in > every spreadsheet app I had access to, I decided to be nice and report > this to them. > > But: [snip snip snip] Ah. This is clearly some novel meaning of "open" standards process. I'm sure that if the error had been in the OOXML spec, the governments of about six major and twenty minor countries would have sponsored your bug report and made sure it got prompt attention. Cheers,
From: Tony Bowden Date: 08:11 on 22 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Mailing list as bug tracker Philip Newton wrote: > Ah. This is clearly some novel meaning of "open" standards process. I think it's a sign that the SCO-style legal-FUD approach is working. They appear to be so scared of anyone ever challenging the provenance of any part of their work that even *talk to them* you need to sign a huge document saying you are assigning everything to them and have the right to do so. Having wasted a significant chunk of last year on so-called "open source license" wrangling for my erstwhile employer, I can spew software license hate all day with only a half-turn of the winding key... Tony
From: Michael G Schwern Date: 08:44 on 22 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Mailing list as bug tracker Tony Bowden wrote: > Having wasted a significant chunk of last year on so-called "open source > license" wrangling for my erstwhile employer, I can spew software > license hate all day with only a half-turn of the winding key... /me turns the key a good three or four times and stands back.
Generated at 10:26 on 16 Apr 2008 by mariachi